I’m quitting Foursquare and Gowalla
As any true early adopter I jumped on the Foursquare and Gowalla bandwagon last year and have used both services, Foursquare more so than Gowalla. I know there are other location-based services out there but these are the two I’ve tried. I’ll save the Foursquare vs. Gowalla debate for another time, but for the purposes of this article I will consider them the same: location-based social networks.
Privacy Concerns
I have always had an issue with broadcasting my whereabouts in real-time (or near real-time). Anytime I discuss this aspect of using Foursquare or Gowalla I notice colleagues and friends with certain “government” backgrounds cringe and get visibly nervous. It’s one thing to tell your trusted friends where you are offline, but broadcasting that to the whole world opens enormous privacy and safety issues. Fortunately I haven’t had any issues with this personally, but I have heard several cases of real stalking occurring because this information is so easily available. The privacy issue can be debated but the bottom line is that once you make the information public, even if you have a protected twitter account or only one friend on Foursquare, it can be re-posted and disseminated. You lose control over that information.
Badges & Mayors: Really? Who cares.
I will admit, being a part of the first Foursquare “Swarm” in Washington, DC, was a lot of fun. Getting 50+ users to be at the same place at the same time was a great feat and lead to some great publicity for DC Twestival, which was the event where the swarm happened. Beyond that there is really no value in the countless other “badges” and the point system, other than bragging rights and the occasional tongue-in-cheek badge. Yes, unlocking the “Animal House” or “Player Please” badge while going to dinner is what I’m talking about.
The whole idea of becoming the “Mayor” of a particular venue is that you have checked in more times recently than anyone else. Generally speaking, you need the most check ins in the past 60 days to be the mayor.
Gowalla has a different system of awarding pins and badges, and doesn’t seem to focus on the idea of checking in more times than anyone else like Foursquare does (there is no such thing as a Gowalla “Mayor”).
Cheating by Employees
Unless you have a liver of steel, there is no way you’ve checked in to the same bar 28 out of the past 30 days. Well, unless you work there that is. I have had countless conversations with people upset over lost mayorships and the inability to ever become mayor due to this limitation. Until this is fixed the grumbling will continue and the incentive to use these services will diminish.
Useless Checkins
My all-time favorite of late is the rise in gas station mayors. Even better are the times I see someone tweet and post to LinkedIn every time they fill their tank of gas. This behavior is nothing but an annoyance and seriously litters everyone’s stream online. With better filtering I’m sure this problem will be eliminated in the future.
Where are my friends?
My friends are great, and I’m sure they truly care that I know they checked in at McDonalds for a bite to eat 30 minutes ago. I could care less. Now, if they are visiting a hot new restaurant and want to let me know all about it, then I’m all ears. There’s a service for that and it’s called Yelp.
For group situations such as a tweetup or group outing there is some value in knowing who else is there. However, for most events there is an attendee list publicly available that you can scan in advance to know who will be there. You can monitor your friends on Twitter or Facebook and see if they’re talking about an event. Or, if it’s a really interesting event and you want to make sure to catch up with some friends, you could reach out to them directly. My point is that I find practically no value in seeing a bunch of names show up on my stream of “who’s here” when I’m at an event — or even if I’m not but monitoring it later.
Lack of True Loyalty Incentives (the real kicker)
You might consider the last few complaints superficial but my real issue with using these location services is the lack of true customer loyalty incentives. As it currently stands only some venues are offering rewards for “Mayors,” and we know how difficult that can be to achieve. As an example, Starbucks was recently offering $1 off its Frauppuccino beverages to any Foursquare Mayor. This is fine until you are competing with road warriors and commuters who stop by every day and have locked in that Mayorship for life. I’m not going to go out of my way and increase my number of visits and spending just to save a dollar on a frozen drink (this is a topic for another article). As of the time of this writing it appears the Starbucks mayor incentive has disappeared. It will be interesting to see what new special may take its place.
If you look at existing customer loyalty programs you get a good idea of what Foursquare should aspire to. For example, most grocery store chains offer a loyalty card. Many are making it almost mandatory to get the best prices possible. I once found grapes at a local store listed at over $8, but when I swiped my loyalty card the price plummeted to $0.89. Now that’s a real incentive and I didn’t have to visit 15 times in the past 30 days to get that reward. It would be a killer app to combine Foursquare with an existing loyalty program like this.
Most venues understand the value of customer loyalty and any tool that will help them better connect with and reward their best customers is a win-win for everyone. I strongly feel that Foursquare and services like it are heading in this direction, but it’s going to take a lot more buy-in and likely a significant change in how the services reward consumer behaviors to move forward.
A great model for going forward: Tri-Out
I had the good fortune of meeting Wayne Sutton (@waynesutton) last year at Internet Summit in Raleigh, North Carolina, and learned earlier this year that he’s partnered with Lawrence Ingraham (@lawpower) on a new project called Tri-Out. Tri-Out is, in my opinion, location-based social networking done right. They have started locally in the greater Triangle area and are focused on the most important part of the location experience: venues. If you browse their website and use their mobile applications (you have to visit Raleigh to activate the service, however), it is simple to find good places to eat or visit. I feel like Tri-Out is a perfect mashup of Yelp and Foursquare, with ratings, reviews, photos, and the check-in component. The most important aspect about Tri-Out I like is the fact that it was started in a local community and has a tight-knit user base. It also helps that as I was writing this article Tri-Out came out with their views on privacy concerns and how they are addressing them. It will be interesting to see how they advance their loyalty program and continue their venue partnerships. For now, Tri-Out is the only location service I have on my phone and I will be sure to use it on my travels to the Triangle.
Bottom Line
Until Foursquare, Gowalla, and services like them address these concerns, I’m out. Surely it is just a matter of time before these services get better, but I’ll be watching closely on the sidelines for now.
PS: What does it look like to delete your accounts? See below:
26 Responses to “I’m quitting Foursquare and Gowalla” (Leave a Comment)
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The best part of the foursquare experience is finding out about venues your friends visit locally that you didn’t know existed. It’s nice for discovering restaurants and such, but I agree it can get a little cluttered. Some better filtering would make the service better.
Thanks Eric, I agree discovery is a great benefit of location-based social networking and you’re right, better filtering is going to be key. I find Yelp much more beneficial for getting real reviews of new venues I may not have heard about. Gas stations, not so much.
I like the concept of a more interactive, real time application like Tri-Out. Too bad it’s not in the DMV. I’d like to give it a whirl. For now I will keep playing with Foursquare until a better option appears.
I have so many things to say about Foursquare good and bad, but I’ll spare the novel
I think it’s good to pare down on some networking sites. Recently I cleaned up my 4sq and Facebook friends lists to people who I converse with often. I still see value in it in terms of finding out if friends are nearby, discovering new places near me, or any possible mayor deals but there’s no need for random people to know about my whereabouts.
Also, I’m pretty sure I lost my righteously earned Whole Foods to an employee. Between personal grocery shopping, business shopping, and eating there for lunch once or twice a week, I couldn’t imagine anyone else checking in more than me except for an employee. Hmph!
Ironic that I read this today. My blog post for tomorrow (written several hours ago) is on using Foursquare more effectively for networking.
But that said, I don’t disagree with you. I’ve backed way off of Foursquare recently. It just doesn’t hold my interest like it did when I was earning the easy badges. But one special really did work out for me recently. I was checking in at a Barnes and Noble, on a whim, and noticed a “Special Nearby.” I clicked on it, and it was for 15% off at American Eagle. I was with my son, and he needed jeans. All we needed to do was check-in, so it worked out well for us. I’m starting to see more specials that don’t require Mayorships, which is a good trend.
Privacy and safety are real concerns. One check-in here and there is not that bad. But if your check-ins establish a trend, such as strangers (creeps) knowing where you are going to be at a certain time and day, then that can be a problem. Worse is people broadcasting “I’m out-of-town in a beach hotel resort in the Bahamas”–might as well scream “just raid my house”!!!
The badges are cute and if you’re doing the check-ins because you want to be “mayor” is a little weak. I thought a stronger incentive was being mayor gets you good deals at certain establishments. I found out that you don’t need to be mayor in some places, just check-in once in a while and you get discounts or freebies. Freebies and discounts are nice, but I’ve always had privacy concerns (that’s why I’m a late adopter). People need to understand their risks. I understand mine (or should I say I try to control and mitigate it) so 4sq check-ins are fine by me.
@ Michelle
Your concern about employees is a big issue. You can’t have a level playing field for consumers if employees are taking away your ability to be rewarded for your loyalty.
@ Juli
Ironic indeed! The check-in specials are growing and finding them in fun for sure. At the same time you could browse to the store website on your phone and likely find a coupon. This has limited scale and value until it is really tied more closely to existing consumer behavior and rewarding your loyalty.
@ Gabe
Agreed and I think you touch on a larger issue about risk management. As early adopters we’ll take the bad with the good, but a lot of people on the sidelines aren’t using location-based services for that exact reason: they don’t know the risks and they don’t know how to manage them. Until this improves it’s going to remain steadfast as an early adopter toy (brings Google Wave to mind).
I too have struggled with the question: Is Foursquare valuable. I think it’s the users who have potential to make it valuable. I check in to a lot of Foursquare venues, but I will only send that check-in to Twitter or Facebook if I’m saying (or “shouting”) something worthwhile. I think using Foursquare as a Twitter companion to provide the location / user comments on the venue I’m referring to is a great idea. Ten pointless check-ins per day on my Twitterfeed is the opposite of valuable.
I try my best to log into Foursquare and add my review of certain venues. I commend the users that have added reviews or comments. In a populated area, this can be very helpful. I’ve tried new things and places based on “word of mouth” recommendations on Foursquare. When out of town in an unfamiliar neighborhood, this is especially helpful.
One other thing about Foursquare, most of my “real-life” friends are not early adopters like me. So, maybe 3 or 4 were on Foursquare at first. Most of my Foursquare friends were people I “know” from Twitter, but don’t know very well in real life. These are not people I would just show up and sit next to at a restaurant without looking creepy. So, other than the occasional conversation about a mutually loved restaurant, there is not much value in my Foursquare stream other than good ol’ fashioned nosiness.
Jonathan, have you considered just using Foursquare to enhance the value of your Twitter stream? Maybe just being an occasional user who is not interested in racking up points, badges or mayorships?
After toying with Foursquare for a few months the conclusion seems obvious that “entertainment value” is the only thing it had going for it… and that only lasted about a month (earning easy badges ala Juli’s comment).
I sometimes find myself checking in somewhere meaningless just to preserve a mayorship. An example of meaningless check-ins: there is no incentive to check in at the lake… its not like the lake could offer me a discount on something or otherwise reward my loyalty.
I’m also guilty of the gas station check in… again, just to be able to claim a meaningless mayorship.
My Foursquare account will be deleted tonight. I’ve got better things to do with my time and should have deleted it months ago.
Quitter!
@ Dan
I’ve thought about selectively using it, but if you’re really looking for good venues and quality reviews, Yelp is a much better bet. This is also where services like Tri-Out excel and are really a good model going forward.
@ Jeff
Completely agreed, the entertainment value has been lost.
@ Tall Tom
Don’t worry, I’ll still call you for those Starbucks specials!
Jonathan, I’ve added a link to this post to my post. Might as well give people both sides. And the discussion in the comments here has been good.
@danr. Your strategy about only publishing your shout-it if there’s something of value to it was the main thrust of my post. Great minds do think alike!
[...] a few hours after I wrote this post, I saw a different opinion on Foursquare by Jonathan Arehart. Head over and read it too for a balanced perspective and some good discussion [...]
I have decided to comment and show another side of Foursquare that I have experienced personally. I am in no way commenting to argue and can say that I do not totally disagree with everything you’ve said but plan to offering a counter point to each of your points. I hope it will come across in the spirit in which I’m wirting – the spirit of a discussion.
On the privacy issue – I agree that it is subjective. You are not required to check-in to every venue you visit nor are you required to check-in the moment you arrive at that venue. If you do not want people seeing where you are, don’t check-in.
Badges & Mayorships – The badges are fun and do generate conversation and laughs on and off twitter, which is not a bad thing, IMHO. The Mayorships are a little weak in the ‘rewards’ catagory and do get stolen-unfairly-by employees.
Useless Check-Ins & Where are my friends? – I agree that checking-in and posting to your twitter stream *every time* you go somewhere is very annoying especially when you follow several people that do it. But the example you posted of a check-in mentioning all the people @gracecunning was there with, I do not believe to be annoying or unnecessary. I was actually told by a new twitter user and follower that they were *glad* that I posted that I was at Policy for the #DCTweetup and that it included all the people I was with. Because of that, they found out about tweetups, what they are, and how and when they happen, having never been to one. I also agree that gas station, lake, the metro, ect check-ins are unnecessary because there is no way that those check-ins can benefit you unless you are asking people to meet you at that place.
Lack of True Loyalty Incentives – This is the point I most disagree on. I have several personal examples of receiving discounts, or free things just by checking in, even if I was not the Mayor.
1. I got in to a bar while in Hawaii without having to pay the $10 cover just because I checked in.
2. I have been to several stores and ‘unlocked’ a special to receive 10%, 15% or 20% off my total purchase. There is also currently a special at the National Crime and Punishment Museum for a $10 admission to the museum after checking in.
3. I have also had several instances where I did not know the address of the place I was at, either waiting to be picked up or waiting for someone to meet me. (I travel a lot, its not just that I get lost all the time) In many of those situations, I have told the person to check my Foursquare for my address/location and have been found that way.
4. I have also found friends that were near my location by logging into the app and seeing that they are close and being able to say Hi or meet shortly before we both have to get on with our day. I find it to be a pleasant surprise when I check-in somewhere and see a friend that I can then say Hi to and chat with. Were it not for Foursquare, I likely would not have had that chance. (I will clarify though and say that I only accept Foursquare friendships form people I know, as another way to regulate the privacy issue) I think that if you make Foursquare work for you, it can be both fun and useful.
These are my thoughts, though not all contrary to yours, Jonathan, many are, but I know that we can still be friends and agree to disagree.
I just have one last comment in response to your announcement “I am quitting Foursquare and Gowalla.” – Who cares?
For me location is a PULL, not PUSH technology. If I want to know where you are I’ll ask.
I can’t help but feel that most of your issues with checkin services is all how you’re using it. Like Twitter, Tumblr, and Facebook, it’s all static until you figure out how to use it to best suit how you want to use the service(s).
It seems like if you can get your friends to stop sending all their checkins to Twitter/Facebook, and turn off notifications, you’ll be set.
As for your issues with mayorships, I agree that it sucks that employees dominate many venues, but that being said, the mayorships reflect realistic patronship (not a word, I know). The guy that grabs coffee 3 times a day from the same coffee shop probably deserves an ongoing mayorship more than you do.
My suggestion for this is to have a longterm mayorship title (determined by most checkins since the venue was created) and then a secondary mayorship (maybe a different title) for most checkins within a more recent time window. This is one of the reasons I prefer Gowalla’s founders and leaderboards more than mayorships.
As for not wanting a list of who’s all in at a venue at one time, you realize you have to go kinda out of your way to get to that information. In fact, I don’t think the app offers it up until at least 3-4 taps in. It’s not like any of this data is being thrown at you. It’s just available.
I wonder if the answer would be to force more useful exchange of information through Foursquare?
What would happen if Foursquare made it compulsory to leave a comment/piece of information etc when you check in? Surely this would have several benefits:
* Making the updates more interesting as people would be forced to find something to say about where they are. Even a petrol station check in would be interesting if someone posted the price per litre of the fuel, for example.
* It would cut down on the people repeatedly checking in for mayor rights – there are only so many things you can say about an area day after day.
You could almost take it a step further and bring in the need for the comment to be LIKED by a certain number of people in order for the checkin to be valid.
If you delete FourSquare then the only thing you won’t be able to participate in checking in.
This doesn’t solve the issue of seeing idiots get their gas station mayorships – because they always push them to twitter.
You should stay and use it the way you wish others would. Why not set the example rather than take your toys and leave the sandbox?
Re: employee checkins, they can be marked as ‘Staff’, and you can see them as a separate category in certain venues [e.g. http://foursquare.com/venue/5244864, but I’m not sure how this is set/enforced.
I see some of your concerns with privacy and the employee mayorship problems, but if you are planning on watching from the sidelines and possibly jumping back in later, you may be going too far.
I would just stop using the services. Like you, I am an early adopter of all kinds of services. I sign up immediately so I can secure my name or my company’s name to keep my online identities consistent. I have Gowalla, Buzz, and a ton of other accounts that are active, but I never use.
If you delete your accounts, you will lose your user name, and a year or more of account history. If one of these services really takes off in the next year or two, you’ll be forced to create a new account, and fight millions of new users for a good user name, and your history will be a couple months long instead of several years.
I only wanted to say, “Make sure it is actually deleted.”. If it is like some other programs, you think you got it all, but parts of it still “hang around”. ugh…
[...] compelling when friends don’t use it anymore. It is vulnerable to the flock rising up and flying away. Restaurants and nightclubs have thrived and declined by this dynamic forever. In the case of [...]
[...] the early adopters perhaps getting over the novelty of checkins sans widespread fat rewards from participating brands, and Facebook yet to deploy anything super [...]
[...] This is another of many articles decrying Foursquare. [...]
Just another reason to stop using Foursqaure. Now you can hack it with Perl to become the Mayor anywhere.
http://compbio.cs.uic.edu/~mayank/4sq.html
[...] read a great post a while ago from Jonathan Arehart on why he quit Foursquare and Gowalla. There’s privacy concerns, frustration with checkins, boredom with badges and more. [...]